Yellow95 Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 I am not going to tell you what religion I am speaking about. I just want to know if you agree with this statement."Any religion that demands earthly vengence and retribution for ANY reason is not a religion at all. It is an illness and should be treated as such."Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael V70T5 Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 On the "earthly vengence and retribution" can you be more specific? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c70turbo5 Posted September 19, 2007 Report Share Posted September 19, 2007 I believe it is a little contradicting...... Faith is a powerful thing, and many faiths including Christianity have been abused by those in power for personal gain at one time, it's easy to take advantage of the poor, hungry, "lost" people. I believe that even the young muslims that kill each other every day... are doing what they believe is the "right thing". So denouncing their faith doesn't seem right, i just come to the conclusion that they are misguided. Although I do not approve of any violence what-so-ever... i respect anyone with faith and dedication, otherwise i feel i'm just ignorant to the fact that not everyone believes what i do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caliwagon Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Depends what you mean by religion. If we use an open definition, then I guess Congress would be guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvo Virgin Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 I believe it is a little contradicting...... Faith is a powerful thing, and many faiths including Christianity have been abused by those in power for personal gain at one time, it's easy to take advantage of the poor, hungry, "lost" people. I believe that even the young muslims that kill each other every day... are doing what they believe is the "right thing". So denouncing their faith doesn't seem right, i just come to the conclusion that they are misguided. Although I do not approve of any violence what-so-ever... i respect anyone with faith and dedication, otherwise i feel i'm just ignorant to the fact that not everyone believes what i do.Agreed to a degree. Many religious leaders have a corrupt agenda, even if it didn't start out that way. Pass that blasphemous agenda on to devout misguided followers......and you have a problem. The so-called Muslims you speak of are a perfect example of just how faith can be twisted to suit the needs of a vengeful body of peope. I personally know true Muslims that are peace loving people that just want to worship and wouldn't kill a flea. Obviously we don't all have to agree about faith or the lack thereof, but IMO killing in the name of religion is just plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c70turbo5 Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 Agreed to a degree. Many religious leaders have a corrupt agenda, even if it didn't start out that way. Pass that blasphemous agenda on to devout misguided followers......and you have a problem. The so-called Muslims you speak of are a perfect example of just how faith can be twisted to suit the needs of a vengeful body of peope. I personally know true Muslims that are peace loving people that just want to worship and wouldn't kill a flea. Obviously we don't all have to agree about faith or the lack thereof, but IMO killing in the name of religion is just plain wrong.i was basically trying to say the same ....... but remember how catholics massacred people if they wouldn't convert? .... all i'm saying is there are bad people in any group. I don't denounce any faith just because some a$$hole takes advantage of poor people for their own agenda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownTurboBrick Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 faith is what any man or women holds true in their heart. that includes those who will kill others that don't believe the exact same. that is their faith. that is faith.i honestly do not give a rats jerk about one religion or another, im open to hear all, and convert to none. i'm buddhist by birth, but i don't follow all of its teachings to a T. hell you can't make me go a meal with have some sort of meat on my plate, i don't care who you think you are. im gonna have bacon at breakfast, a grilled chicken for lunch and a steak at dinner. im not going vegitarian no way no how. faith gets twisted when believers follow blindly. every person has to take the teachings they recieve and diseminate it for themselves. you can't just follow what some jackass tells you. because that jackass took the teaching and understood it his own way, and now is spreading his own idiocy. we all can't be the blind following the blind, we all must be leaders for ourselves. in the end we're human, and because of that there will always be different ideas and beliefs, and guys with big egos and even bigger guns will try to force anybody who opposes them down. they may gain support from blind followers, but if all of them start to think for themselves, the support would dwindle to only truly like minded thinkers, and since we're all so different that number would be much smaller then with the blind followers. without the support thier powers would never be strong enough to take over anything.any religion that is willing to harm people (written into the text) for not following in is teachings should be seriously considered when learning it. what could be gained from harming others that don't believe what you do? nothing for you, but for the leaders it gives them more power to control. how does having people like that in control benefit you? not a single person on this planet posses the power to create a utopia for their followers nor would they ever want to. keeping followers in control is where the power is at, if they let that go, then where's their power?a newborn would never know hate and evil until it is taught those things. its faith and beliefs in its early life are based on those of the parents. we own the responsibilty to raise our children properly, the problem is everyone thinks their way is the right way and everyone else is wrong. which leads us back to being human...we all are different and will decide what we want to do. the weaker ones will always blindly follow for good or evil or faith makes it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashif Posted September 20, 2007 Report Share Posted September 20, 2007 I am not going to tell you what religion I am speaking about. I just want to know if you agree with this statement."Any religion that demands earthly vengence and retribution for ANY reason is not a religion at all. It is an illness and should be treated as such."GaryYawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starfish Posted September 21, 2007 Report Share Posted September 21, 2007 i was basically trying to say the same ....... but remember how catholics massacred people if they wouldn't convert? .... all i'm saying is there are bad people in any group. I don't denounce any faith just because some a$$hole takes advantage of poor people for their own agendaNo, I don't remember when Catholics massacred people if they wouldn't convert? When did this happen and who were they trying to convert and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kashif Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 No, I don't remember when Catholics massacred people if they wouldn't convert? When did this happen and who were they trying to convert and why?Spanish inquisition An inquisition initiated in 1478 by King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella that guarded the orthodoxy of Catholicism in Spain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starfish Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 ....... but remember how catholics massacred people if they wouldn't convert? ....Your persuing your argument with a grossly exaggerated, often misunderstood and misfortunate legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c70turbo5 Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Your persuing your argument with a grossly exaggerated, often misunderstood and misfortunate legend.Really? So you were there when Magellan came to the Philippines? or when Columbus enslaved the natives of Central America? "I could conquer the whole of them with fifty men and govern them as I please"- Christopher Columbuscrushing an entire civilization, enslaving their people, and taking away their traditions replacing them with your own seems pretty forceful to me.I respect if your catholic and are defending your religion... but your quite ignorant if you think that corruption never plagued the faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAzOR Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Really? So you were there when Magellan came to the Philippines? or when Columbus enslaved the natives of Central America? "I could conquer the whole of them with fifty men and govern them as I please"- Christopher Columbuscrushing an entire civilization, enslaving their people, and taking away their traditions replacing them with your own seems pretty forceful to me.I respect if your catholic and are defending your religion... but your quite ignorant if you think that corruption never plagued the faithIt's called "life" buddy. So if the Nook-Nook tribe of Africa wouldn't let us take their sacred vegetable even though it cured cancer and they would die defending it- "bye-bye" Nook-Nook tribe and I have nooooooo problem with that.Look at the reverse- if the Nook-Nook tribe prevails I might die of cancer, and the rest of you would be running around naked except for your johnsons shoved into bamboo tubes. Forget space exploration, nuclear physics, Starbucks- hell I'm gonna go get me a monkey with my blowgun and a poison dart.Yes, Virginia, there are BETTER and WORSE cultures. STRONGER and WEAKER societies. It's not Small World like at Disneyland- not by a long shot. IT's okay to defend your way of life, your values, your way of doing things. It's not perfect but here in Western Civ, we do things better than most- and MORE importantly, we STRIVE to grow and be better, we QUESTION ourselves. So, YES, I think we are superioir to the Nook-Nook and it's OK to say so- so long as we try to help them- and that's where it can get tricky.Might still makes right. But the justification is not that simple. It can be justified or unjustified and many times that depends on the perspective. Sometimes it is not perspective dependent- it is right vs wrong, good vs evil.Magellan, Columbus, the US vs native Indians were all Might Makes Right. And all were reasonably justified. If two cultures clash and cannot coexist or merge one will previal. That's life.The Native Americans did not even have the WHEEL when the continent began getting settled. Aztecs, Incas, Maya had their moments and were highly advanced- for Americans. But compared to Europe, they were to slow to the finish and it caught up with them when contact was made- when they clashed.Today we all try to work it out. But again, we find ourselves dealing with two clashing worlds- one that has not kept pace and refuses to "merge" and one that has been setting the pace. If the two cannot merge, and continue to clash, one will prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starfish Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 Really? I respect if your catholic and are defending your religion... but your quite ignorant if you think that corruption never plagued the faithNo, just that what you have perceived as knowledge of the Catholic Church and European political histories is flawed.In order to believe what you have inaccurately displayed you would have to have forgotten many more facts than you retained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c70turbo5 Posted September 23, 2007 Report Share Posted September 23, 2007 No, just that what you have perceived as knowledge of the Catholic Church and European political histories is flawed.In order to believe what you have inaccurately displayed you would have to have forgotten many more facts than you retained.i believe what i believe......... your not making any points so this is pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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