Rear Cam Seal "how To"

[JBVolvo]

I didn't have any leaks at first either, took about 800 miles to show up. No nicks anywhere, I think that either the new (Elring) seal is bad or that it shouldn't be pushed in all the way (it is slightly recessed right now). I am re-doing this week with a seal from the dealer and making sure it is flush. Instructions in Haynes are pretty specific as to this and vadis says flush is the normal installation so that's what I am doing on the new one.

PCV is OK, was serviced just before the RMS was replaced in 2006.

guess Ill keep an eye on mine

[erikv11]

Re-read my Haynes and it says to insert the new seal "until it's outer face is flush with the housing" ....

I learned this the hard way too (but axle seals in my case): Outer face flush is the standard for any seal. At least we only have to learn it once, should hold for any seal on any vehicle.

It is pretty important, there is a machined surface on the metal that matches up precisely with the properly installed seal.

[JBVolvo]

I learned this the hard way too (but axle seals in my case): Outer face flush is the standard for any seal. At least we only have to learn it once, should hold for any seal on any vehicle.

It is pretty important, there is a machined surface on the metal that matches up precisely with the properly installed seal.

how come I have no leaks with mine?

[erikv11]

how come I have no leaks with mine?

how come not every cheap Asian-made axle fails?

shortest answer: I don't know.

short answer: I don't know, and it is good to know that about your car, but it doesn't really matter for my comment. It is a good idea to install the seal properly if you have the opportunity.

long answer, not to be confused with "I know:" maybe all the way in is pretty close to flush in this case, or maybe it doesn't really matter in this case (e.g. the machined surface is bigger in the case of a cam seal. It's been a long time since I last looked at a cam). Maybe you haven't driven enough miles to notice the leak. Maybe your car's cams don't seat anymore exactly the way they were engineered to, so you still have a good seal. Etc ...

I'm not saying your installation is a problem, I think like you said I'd probably keep an eye on it for a while rather than go messing around with it. What I am saying is, flush with the outer surface is the rule of thumb on installing a seal.

[JBVolvo]

?

[JBVolvo]

I didn't have any leaks at first either, took about 800 miles to show up. No nicks anywhere, I think that either the new (Elring) seal is bad or that it shouldn't be pushed in all the way (it is slightly recessed right now). I am re-doing this week with a seal from the dealer and making sure it is flush. Instructions in Haynes are pretty specific as to this and vadis says flush is the normal installation so that's what I am doing on the new one.

PCV is OK, was serviced just before the RMS was replaced in 2006.

Erik & Mike -

SONOVABITCH. GUESS WHAT..................

I'm leaking too! I used the Elring from FCP. What's more likely the cause?

The Elring? Or the fact that I fully seated the seal?

I edited the HOW TO so it specifically states "flush"

[Mike_P]

I went to the dealer at lunchtime today to get the Volvo seals ($16.35 each) and noticed a few things looking at them through the plastic bag (not sure if they make these better or just different):

1. There is a pattern embossed on the outside edge of the seal, a series of rings that go all the way around. I'm not explaining it well, but it looks like these would help it to seal better on the outside edges
2. The inner part of the seal (which will contact the camshaft) has a series of lines molded into the rubber. Both the Volvo and Elring seals have a metal ring on the back side of the inner seal
3. Like the seal that came out of my engine originally, the outer edge of the seal is black rubber, the inner edge is orange rubber. The Elring seals are all black.

I'm going to put these in tonight after work, will report back with any results. I'm going to be real careful to get them flush, because unlike an axle seal once you push them in too far there's no easy way to pull them back.

[JBVolvo]

I went to the dealer at lunchtime today to get the Volvo seals ($16.35 each) and noticed a few things looking at them through the plastic bag (not sure if they make these better or just different):

1. There is a pattern embossed on the outside edge of the seal, a series of rings that go all the way around. I'm not explaining it well, but it looks like these would help it to seal better on the outside edges
2. The inner part of the seal (which will contact the camshaft) has a series of lines molded into the rubber. Both the Volvo and Elring seals have a metal ring on the back side of the inner seal
3. Like the seal that came out of my engine originally, the outer edge of the seal is black rubber, the inner edge is orange rubber. The Elring seals are all black.

I'm going to put these in tonight after work, will report back with any results. I'm going to be real careful to get them flush, because unlike an axle seal once you push them in too far there's no easy way to pull them back.

I'm picking up my new one $14.95 from the dealer tonight as well.

I just looked on the FCP page and it says "OEM" for the cam seals. Not ELRING.

The seal I received was definately an ELRING seal, but they claim ELRING has been OEM for a long time.

Probably won't get to it tonight though unless I want to do it in the dark. I look forward to hearing your results.

If you have a high res digital, take pix of the 2 seals if they're different - or I will when I do the job.

Perhaps its just due to our ignorance when we seated our seals. Crazy to think that that millimeter or two really makes enough of a difference for it to leak. My photo from the how to in the beginning is really the new seal, and you can see how close to flush it really was.

[Mike_P]

I'm picking up my new one $14.95 from the dealer tonight as well.

I just looked on the FCP page and it says "OEM" for the cam seals. Not ELRING.

The seal I received was definately an ELRING seal, but they claim ELRING has been OEM for a long time.

Probably won't get to it tonight though unless I want to do it in the dark. I look forward to hearing your results.

If you have a high res digital, take pix of the 2 seals if they're different - or I will when I do the job.

Perhaps its just due to our ignorance when we seated our seals. Crazy to thing that that millimeter or two really makes enough of a difference for it to leak. My photo from the how to in the beginning is really the new seal, and you can see how close to flush it really was.

In FCP-speak the pecking order is (IMO) generally:

Scan Tech

Aftermarket (which is often Scantech)

OEM

Manufacturers like Bosch etc

Genuine Volvo

Not slamming FCP because I do lots of business with them, you get what you pay for sometimes and in the case of these seals I guess it is proving to be true.

Your seal is in there pretty far beyond flush, moreso than mine are. I think the beyond flush is prrimarily what is causing our leaks, the cheap-o seal is secondary.

I'll see if I can get my daugheter's 10MP camera tonight, if not I will use my 2.1MP and see if I can figure out how to upload pictures here. My house has a garage so I am doing this tonight for sure.

[JBVolvo]

In FCP-speak the pecking order is (IMO) generally:

Scan Tech

Aftermarket (which is often Scantech)

OEM

Manufacturers like Bosch etc

Genuine Volvo

Not slamming FCP because I do lots of business with them, you get what you pay for sometimes and in the case of these seals I guess it is proving to be true.

Your seal is in there pretty far beyond flush, moreso than mine are. I think the beyond flush is prrimarily what is causing our leaks, the cheap-o seal is secondary.

I'll see if I can get my daugheter's 10MP camera tonight, if not I will use my 2.1MP and see if I can figure out how to upload pictures here. My house has a garage so I am doing this tonight for sure.

Lucky you! Wish I had a garage myself.

I'm picking up the seal tonight, so I may do it anyway with a flashlight and numb hands.

[JBVolvo]

Well attempt #2 done. Hope you're having a better time with it Mike_P than I was.

It was a friggn' nightmare trying to remove the seal that was fully seated.

I don't have a drill here at my apartment, all my power tools are at my parents. Removing the seal took at least an hour.

Once it was out, I put in the new Genuine Volvo seal.

I didnt take photos because I figured Mike would have already reported back before me.

The "OEM" from FCP definately doesnt look to be as high quality as the genuine volvo from the dealer.

There's a lot more to intricacies on the Volvo part.

I'm less confident this time than I was the first time when I'd mistakenly fully seated it.

Reason being that when I seated it this time, although the majority of it sat flush with the outer surface, one part was slightly recessed.

I checked it after the replacement and a test drive (no signs of leaks yet), but I plan on keeping an eye on it again.

I was 2 quarts down!

[Mike_P]

Replaced both of mine, the intake cam (which actually was in there flush) had more oil pooled than the exhaust cam (which was recessed a bit), go figure. Intake cam went fine (perfectly flush), when I did the exhaust the bottom part of the seal was recessed the tiniest bit - no way to pull it out so hopefully it's not a problem. Did a few other things too so it took longer than I expected.

[JBVolvo]

Replaced both of mine, the intake cam (which actually was in there flush) had more oil pooled than the exhaust cam (which was recessed a bit), go figure. Intake cam went fine (perfectly flush), when I did the exhaust the bottom part of the seal was recessed the tiniest bit - no way to pull it out so hopefully it's not a problem. Did a few other things too so it took longer than I expected.

well...both of us are in the same boat with the exhaust cam seal then. lets cross our fingers!

I definately think the Volvo seals are more rugged looking, etc.