Strict Gun Control - Does It Work?

[RAzOR]

I agree with both of you but this issue is at the heart of the matter. It's the "gray" area that happens every day and how we deal with it. She was a dumbass to go outside. I would have done what the two of you said, stayed inside and locked the door and called the cops. In LA, espcially in Watts, response times can be bad and she would likely have been on her own. Nonetheless, her property was invaded, they had a gun (and probably knives). Why should it be her fault? THEY are the ones taking their lives into their own hands. If you were to jump someone's fence with the intent of robbing them and they had kids inside, what do think might happen?

She was stupid to go outside but let's not forget what happened.

To the point, if the common criminal assumes that most homeowners have guns and were ready to use them, what would happen to the rate of at-home incidents like this? To that point, if a criminal is contemplating robbing one of two houses and he knows one owner has a gun and the other doesn't, which is he/she more likely to rob? What if they all had guns?

[Che'_Moderator]

To the point, if the common criminal assumes that most homeowners have guns and were ready to use them, what would happen to the rate of at-home incidents like this? To that point, if a criminal is contemplating robbing one of two houses and he knows one owner has a gun and the other doesn't, which is he/she more likely to rob? What if they all had guns?

That only works if you assume the good outweighs the bad. If you arms everyone you may lower home invasion but at what cost. Increased accidental homicides? Increased righteous homicides from battered spouces? Its not talked about but on my street the 5 people I talk to regularly 2 carry firearms. The other 3, one of them has no business with one, one is iffy and the third I would not worry about. Without sparking a neighborhood arms race, this area has a saturation of weapons that deters home invasion. All my neighbors know if the times comes to unass their property due to whatever reason they are more than welcome to come here...... unless I shot their cat or beat up their kid. Historically I cannot think of a time when proliferation of weapons solved anything. Arming the entire public that is a bandaid solution to an underlying issue. But as you say back on point. Do you really want a mother that thinks running out side to confront 4 men with a knife owning a gun? And it looks like she has a felony on her record. If that is indeed the case, she could no have owned a firearm due to federal guidelines.

[JHEIII874T5M]

What the hell is someone doing walking outside to confront anything? Much less with a knife? Against 4 people, a gun... jeez, how the hell did she manage to give birth to 4 children?

Did she even call the police?

[Pops Racer]

There are over 2500 laws, fed and state that can be condsidered gun control. Useless. The kid in th Nebraska incident got past security with an AK-47, not a pistol. He could have had a LAW rocket, or 10 hand grenades, no legislation was going to stop him. By the way, Chuck, CT has a CCP, not extremely hard to get. But after references, safety training, fees, background checks and other admin BS, just get a slide gun. Or chop down a double 12ga . Aren't there counties or towns in FL or GA that have mandatory ownership statutes? Crime there might be near zero. Grandma gots a .44, I'm going the next town over, know what I mean? The fact the bad guys can take a measured chance that no one is packing in that house or on that street makes a desperate individual even more brazen. Plant the seed of armed retaliation and maybe the creep moves on to an easier target. And hopefully gets blasted there!

Cliche#1- Gun control means hitting what you aim at.

[Denovae]

There are over 2500 laws, fed and state that can be condsidered gun control. Useless. The kid in th Nebraska incident got past security with an AK-47, not a pistol. He could have had a LAW rocket, or 10 hand grenades, no legislation was going to stop him. By the way, Chuck, CT has a CCP, not extremely hard to get. But after references, safety training, fees, background checks and other admin BS, just get a slide gun. Or chop down a double 12ga . Aren't there counties or towns in FL or GA that have mandatory ownership statutes? Crime there might be near zero. Grandma gots a .44, I'm going the next town over, know what I mean? The fact the bad guys can take a measured chance that no one is packing in that house or on that street makes a desperate individual even more brazen. Plant the seed of armed retaliation and maybe the creep moves on to an easier target. And hopefully gets blasted there!

Cliche#1- Gun control means hitting what you aim at.

... sawed 12g... jesus... i'd never think to take a saw to my 870.

['93 Dave]

wanna hear a joke:

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gun control :lol:

[Owned]

I agree, blaming strict firearm ownership laws is not the answer. If both had guns you might have even more dead. OP - focus on situational awareness of the mother. If I were in her position, and location, i would grab the kids, call the cops, and go out the back door to a neighbors and wait for the cops to show up. If it were in a different location with home defense laws, bet your ass i'd get the kids out the back and tell them to go to the neighbors or basement... go get my remington 870-12, open a window slightly, get in cover, load the sucker up and chamber a round. no retard would think about trying to bust into a house knowingly against a loaded shotgun pointed at them.

I've had one attempted break in at my parents house which ended fairly quickly after my dad called the cops and loaded a mag into his stoner AR-10. the guys disappeared fairly quickly with a cellphone and a cd player.

The gun should already be loaded and you should have at least 10 boxes of ammo in what you designated as your 'safe room.' Something with a phone and only one entry point. Also, get the hell away from the windows.

870 is my house gun, too.

Unfortunetly, in my state once they leave my property I can't shoot them anymore. It's a shame too, since I'd rather hit them with a 2 cent rim fire at 200 yards than a $1.50 12 ga shell, at any distance.

[Pops Racer]

... sawed 12g... jesus... i'd never think to take a saw to my 870.

Your 870 is a single barrel railgun, correct? I'm talking about a $150 used double barrel side-by-side. I would never chop such a nice piece as yours. All I'm talking about is sticking my hand out my BR door, pointing down the hallway and going click-BOOM, click-BOOM... nite-nite.

"If the Model 870™ were introduced today, it would be hailed as a major advance in pump-action shotgun design - the ultimate in strength, durability, silky-smooth bind-free action, and sleek classical lines.

Yet this remarkable shotgun has been around for almost half a century, and has become the best-selling shotgun of any type in history, with over nine million made."

The best you could do is 18.25" barrel. Can't interfere with magazine or slide action, now can we?

Check this link out for 870 goodies:

Choate Machine and Tool Magazine extensions rock!!

[Owned]

You've got to be careful with barrel length. My faith in 'their' ruler is very low. Low enough that I'd never cut below 18.5" just to be safe. In fact, when I cut my house gun down I went to 19" just to be extra safe, as it's the most likely weapon of mine to end up on an evidence table.

Denove, is your 870 stock? I went with a Knoxx Spec Ops recoil stock, synthetic forend, fiber optic sights, and sometimes a BSA red dot. Originally, I had a sling and the red dot on all the time, but now I feel it's better for the house without either. I've been meaning to get a lighted forend but all my gun budget has been going to my target rifles lately. :D

[Pops Racer]

You've got to be careful with barrel length. My faith in 'their' ruler is very low. Low enough that I'd never cut below 18.5" just to be safe. In fact, when I cut my house gun down I went to 19" just to be extra safe, as it's the most likely weapon of mine to end up on an evidence table.

Denove, is your 870 stock? I went with a Knoxx Spec Ops recoil stock, synthetic forend, fiber optic sights, and sometimes a BSA red dot. Originally, I had a sling and the red dot on all the time, but now I feel it's better for the house without either. I've been meaning to get a lighted forend but all my gun budget has been going to my target rifles lately.

Good call on the barrel length. Leave no doubt about legality. Less is more in a tight situation. Slings and sights for a home defense can can be superfluous. They catch on door knobs and pajama sleaves. Laugh if you like, but at close quarters in a home, whats your longest shot ? If target is ID'd properly and rest of friendly occupants are secure, then you don't care about accuracy with a shotgun. Hopefully the sound of that badboy cocking will be enough to send 'em way. If not, 00 will help. Used to tape all that crap up on patrols, no rattles and no hang up on brush or clothing. Same logic applies here. Also why hammerless revolvers are popular as belly guns. No hammer or slide to hang up on clothing, belts or thumbs.

[Owned]

Good call on the barrel length. Leave no doubt about legality. Less is more in a tight situation. Slings and sights for a home defense can can be superfluous. They catch on door knobs and pajama sleaves. Laugh if you like, but at close quarters in a home, whats your longest shot ? If target is ID'd properly and rest of friendly occupants are secure, then you don't care about accuracy with a shotgun. Hopefully the sound of that badboy cocking will be enough to send 'em way. If not, 00 will help. Used to tape all that crap up on patrols, no rattles and no hang up on brush or clothing. Same logic applies here. Also why hammerless revolvers are popular as belly guns. No hammer or slide to hang up on clothing, belts or thumbs.

Those are the exact reasons I removed the sling/red dot. I first thought I'd use the red dot as a night sight (I love my Mepro night sights), but really the house is so confining there's really no way not to get caught by the spread. I still use it at the range once in a while, though.

It's pretty sad these days in terms of defending your self defense. There's stories on the gun forums about modifying your carry weapon being looked at by the court as building a more efficient killing machine. A life and death situation is a life and death situation regardless of if you have a trigger job or not. That's just silly logic to me.

[Che'_Moderator]

Only slug gun I own is a Mossberg Maverick. Barrel is 15 or 16" on it I forget.

[Pops Racer]

Only slug gun I own is a Mossberg Maverick. Barrel is 15 or 16" on it I forget.

Mossberg is in CT, no?. Very dependable and a great price. 500 series is an industry standard. I grew up 2 blocks from Winchester-U.S. Repeating Arms- R.I.P. No need to tout Winchester, they were it for a long time. Of course Colt is in Hartford, Ruger is 1 hour away in Bridgeport area. Marlin is in New Haven area also. Pretty ironic for such a liberal leaning state. Savage is somewhere near by also. Is the barrel rifled on the Maverick? A good shot with a rifled barrel and 3" slug loads should be able to take out the bottom of a #10 juice can at 100m. 16" provides plenty of pattern to work with however.

Tight quarters= advantage defender. I always thought that a laser dot on an intruder was like the hand of God. Maybe I will, maybe I won't, but I can at any time, from anywhere, blow you away. Good point on the trigger example. I can easily see a jury screwing you for reducing trigger pressure, or filing sears and slides, adding magazine extensions, etc. "You, with malicious intent to maim and kill, modified an already deadly weapon into a more perfect killing machine. This exhibits signs of premeditation and intent to kill, not wound or repel. 10 years and all you own as restitution!" The prosecution rests, your Honor.

Empty the magazine into the intruder. Blast the crap out of him. If you only use 1-2 rounds juries and lawyers and such will latch onto this and declare you cold, calm and calculating, inferring premeditation and intent. If you empty all your junk into him, you can at least anchor the idea that you were scared crazy out of control and the next thing you new the bad guy was bleeding on the floor, and you didn't know what happened the gun went off and then he was dead your Honor, (SOB), I didn't mean to blow his liver out (SOB), He scared meeeee( HUGE SOB)!!! Get my drift? :P

[Che'_Moderator]

Mossberg is in CT, no?. Very dependable and a great price. 500 series is an industry standard. I grew up 2 blocks from Winchester-U.S. Repeating Arms- R.I.P. No need to tout Winchester, they were it for a long time. Of course Colt is in Hartford, Ruger is 1 hour away in Bridgeport area. Marlin is in New Haven area also. Pretty ironic for such a liberal leaning state. Savage is somewhere near by also. Is the barrel rifled on the Maverick? A good shot with a rifled barrel and 3" slug loads should be able to take out the bottom of a #10 juice can at 100m. 16" provides plenty of pattern to work with however.

Tight quarters= advantage defender. I always thought that a laser dot on an intruder was like the hand of God. Maybe I will, maybe I won't, but I can at any time, from anywhere, blow you away. Good point on the trigger example. I can easily see a jury screwing you for reducing trigger pressure, or filing sears and slides, adding magazine extensions, etc. "You, with malicious intent to maim and kill, modified an already deadly weapon into a more perfect killing machine. This exhibits signs of premeditation and intent to kill, not wound or repel. 10 years and all you own as restitution!" The prosecution rests, your Honor.

Empty the magazine into the intruder. Blast the crap out of him. If you only use 1-2 rounds juries and lawyers and such will latch onto this and declare you cold, calm and calculating, inferring premeditation and intent. If you empty all your junk into him, you can at least anchor the idea that you were scared crazy out of control and the next thing you new the bad guy was bleeding on the floor, and you didn't know what happened the gun went off and then he was dead your Honor, (SOB), I didn't mean to blow his liver out (SOB), He scared meeeee( HUGE SOB)!!! Get my drift?

It should never go to a jury.

[Pops Racer]

It should never go to a jury.

After following the case of 2 Border Patrol Agents getting 10 yrs for shooting a scumbag in the ass, I think any injustice is possible. Lets see, I blast a "minority" in my house, and all he has is a knife and screwdriver, then some nut job DA goes after me for political gain or public pressure( Duke Lacrosse case), I get a few extra "minorities" on the jury and I am ruined. I may not go down, but it will cost me in defense and reputation. Even without a jury trial those dopes got ruined. It could and has happened. Maybe not in FL, but CA, NY, and MA are Sickle and Hammer states, and CT ain't far behind. I realize it was a different situation that we are describing, but that case is very disturbing. But as you have stated before, better to be judged by 6 than be 6ft under.