Tuners Rejoice! Free Tuning For M4.4!


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I currently don't have access to this mod and also don't have a MAP sensor wired into my ecu - just an analog (though precise) boost gauge. So no, i have not :P Sounds like a good option for those who are properly equipped.

For now I'll see how TCV based tuning w/o LDR routines goes, I think it should go much faster and cleaner than trying to make TCV match Target Load every time you up the Target Load map.

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Attention: The first 30 or so pages of this thread are outdated. Please refer to the M4.4 Wikia article where all the relevant information is currently being collated. Before asking any questions p

Crush it.

After alot of testing and rewriting code, we finally got a useful new mod working. As we all know, some time ago my dad Piet found out how to convert to bigger maf housings with the maf factor. Conver

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Didn't know such bin existed, though it seems elegant as in a way it automatically adjusts max power to ambient conditions. In the winter when max load is reached or exceeded, turbo is simply dialed back to match the max load curve. Then in the summer, when air intake temperatures are higher anyway, the turbo simply doesn't reach the requested load and does nothing, leaving the engine with slightly less power in hot conditions - this instead of adding additional pressure at high temperature which pushes you closer to or beyond the knock limit.

Kind of works like a passive IAT sensor correction, but without an actual sensor wired into the ECU.

But for now I'll just use it to find what my turbo can do without having to worry about overshoot, seems like the simplest method.

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Well, I don't aim to start a pissing contest in any way or form. These are just different approaches that may or may not be most easily applicable to someone's situation, depending on their personal hardware- and/or software-limitations. If you have an otherwise stock ECU with limited or no additional hardware, the P-part hack method mitigates your boost spikes.

Edited by Boxman
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While I have not used the Mod that Maarten made, I do agree it's the best solution. The problem with going open loop for me is the difference in weather actually made a huge difference. 

I tune a car while it was 50F outside, perfect open loop, matched my load goals perfectly.

went driving the next day, 78F outside, car felt gutless at those temps. No timing pull either. 

To prevent knock I propose we use an IAT to pull boost or timing when the air going into the manifold gets too hot. As that's all that really matters, as a hot day outside while moving quickly might keep the IATs reasonable, but after sitting in traffic with the defroster on in cold weather, the intercooler can be heat soaked and when you nail it the engine might knock. 

Im working on getting a good calibration on the stock ME7 IAT and Boost pressure sensor. I'll update when I can figure out how to get good datalogging with IATs. 

 

About my spreadsheet, this is where my tuning inexperience might make me look stupid. Is one knock event per cylinder really that bad? I always assumed that the ECU will pull timing when it detects a detonation event, and that det event is usually pretty light and not all that damaging. If you just add one hex value to the map, 0.75 degrees of timing, and it knocks, then back off and you are good. If you don't want any knock then set the allowed knock to a very low value.

I know that AFR and timing are intertwined greatly. I'm sure if I ran a Lambda of .75 I could run way more timing, but the way I see it, richer than 12.25 or so does not 'allow' you to advance the timing, it 'requires' that extra timing because the burn is slowed down and the time it takes to get to peak cylinder pressure takes longer, so you need to start earlier.

A bit of a tangent there, but I hope i get some stuff right.
EDIT: Dropbox link to spreadsheet.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/040papzwndkt97l/Ignition Power Adder.xls?dl=0 

-Calvin Sonniksen. 

 

Edited by Calvin Sonnik
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5 hours ago, Boxman said:

Well, I don't aim to start a pissing contest in any way or form. These are just different approaches that may or may not be most easily applicable to someone's situation, depending on their personal hardware- and/or software-limitations. If you have an otherwise stock ECU with limited or no additional hardware, the P-part hack method mitigates your boost spikes.

I like your new tuningapproach though!

But not throwing overboard the whole concept of the load based regulation of the M44.

Using the P-part hack is basically the same as using a boostcontroller.

With the boostcontrol mod you can have all the advantages of a load based system without the difficulties of regulating a larger turbo.

The only investment necessary is a, what will it be?, 15 (or something like that) dollar boostsensor.

 

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remind me please, why none uses MBC and all waisting so much time on boost control via tetris ecu ? not like ecu will be fast enough to prevent overboost with huge turbo or anything... only advantage of it would be boost target via map sensor or if you wanna make to spool turbo later than it could. just my 0.25$

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The stock "tetris" ecu is plenty fast enough to prevent overboost if you know what you're doing. It is able to make decisions within a fraction of a degree of crank rotation. With a mbc, the ecu can't compensate for changing circumstances or fault situations etc.. It's hardly a waste of time to preserve and expand upon it's ability to adapt to such situatiins. Of course the mbc seems like the easy way out if all you are looking for is a flat boost curve no matter what, but in the end it's also the inferior option.

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The LDR routine is LCALLED from the running loop. At 6000RPM the running loop is fully executed only 3 times a second. Compound that with the change limitation on the I factor and the boost regulation routine is actually pretty damn slow.  With that said, I still think it has a lot of practical use. On most TD04H turbos a properly setup target load map can prevent boost spikes and keep boost equal through gears.

1 hour ago, Vykis199009 said:

remind me please, why none uses MBC and all waisting so much time on boost control via tetris ecu ? not like ecu will be fast enough to prevent overboost with huge turbo or anything... only advantage of it would be boost target via map sensor or if you wanna make to spool turbo later than it could. just my 0.25$

The difference in driveability between boost controlled via an MBC vs M4.4 is huge. With throttle position controlling target boost you gain a much more linear, naturally aspirated feeling torque output. To maintain a constant acceleration you don't have to roll off the throttle as the RPMs rise like you do with an MBC.  The power output with an MBC is nearly binary, very much all or nothing.  

You don't have to run the target load setpoint routine, you can just run a straight TCV duty cycle map. Even this yields a much better driving experience than an MBC. Without an adaptive routine the ECU is changing the TCV duty cycle in response to TPS and RPM many times faster than would be needed to avoid a boost overshoot. Boost overshoot using this tuning method would only happen due to poor tuning.

@Boxman

Have you seen this thread? Many of the boost routine stuff you talked about are covered in there, and in the first 45 or so pages of this thread.

I always start a tune without any input from the LDR routine. Once boost is tuned to an acceptable range throughout the RPMs I then build a load map based on logs from the TCV map. I don't think it's a revelatory idea, and I don't know why anyone would tune any other way (although ARD still seems to do it this way, lol). To turn off the LDR routine just set KFP and  P-Part to 0.  Once I implement the LDR routine I usually never increase the P or I values above 50% of stock.

For large turbos I designed a routine which holds the TCV fully shut above 60% throttle, if the current load is 1.3ms under the setpoint in the target load map. While doing this it also zero's out the P and I factor, avoiding adaptive overshoot for when the LDR routine turns back on.  I've only used this on larger than TD04 turbos, but it might work well with them as well. 

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@Tightmopedman9 I had not seen that thread, will look into it, thanks for pointing me to it. I kinda enjoy discovering these things like it were a puzzle, so instead of researching the forum endlessly (which is pretty time consuming still) I'll simply try out the things I think might work. What we maybe lack is an up-to-date wiki, where these kind of issues/thoughts are at least mentioned in a central place. I've run into several things now that turned out to already having been discussed before, but in a 450 page topic these tend to become buried. If everybody is free to edit the Wiki page, it might be a good idea to just start linking to individual useful posts and categorize them by topic there. Though I'm not sure who manages or set-up the wikia.

Anyway, still neat that more people had similar ideas in the past. I did a trial run with a first-guess TCV table today and was pretty happy with the results. Boost spikes are gone, even if I spool the turbo at 4000 RPM and proceed to floor the throttle - no overshoot. Pretty great. Before I'd have broken my boost gauge.

I'm interested, would you elaborate on your routine? Does it set TCV to 0% when you get within 1.3ms of target load when above 60% throttle, and what is the exact purpose of this?

6 hours ago, Calvin Sonnik said:

While I have not used the Mod that Maarten made, I do agree it's the best solution. The problem with going open loop for me is the difference in weather actually made a huge difference. 

I tune a car while it was 50F outside, perfect open loop, matched my load goals perfectly.

went driving the next day, 78F outside, car felt gutless at those temps. No timing pull either. 

Aight, so LDR could still be re-activated after tuning to compensate for different weather. The point is that initial tuning is done much quicker and easier by just editing TCV. Afterwards, all OEM control mechanisms can be attuned and reactivated towards your new situation.

 

6 hours ago, Calvin Sonnik said:

About my spreadsheet, this is where my tuning inexperience might make me look stupid. Is one knock event per cylinder really that bad? I always assumed that the ECU will pull timing when it detects a detonation event, and that det event is usually pretty light and not all that damaging.

I'm not sure if we know how many actual knock events it takes before the ECU decides it detected knock. If someone can correct me on this please do, but I think the knock detect system is black box to us. As such, I don't know how much knock and how much damage occurs, so I'd rather avoid it altogether. Granted, I've had my fair share of knock during all of my experimenting (and even way in the beginning a few huge boost spikes easily into the 14ms region when I didn't have any protective systems yet) and my engine is still very much alive after 40k KM. It's a built block though, but as long as I don't know how much knock triggers a knock detect, I'd rather avoid it altogether. Still, I might be pretty conservative in this regard.

Edited by Boxman
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I’ve got the impression that the knockdetection system of the ECU is pretty good.

I did a lot of experimenting, many times pushing things to (over) the limit for more then a year.

Wasn’t to carefull with it.

Until I had to overhaul the engine (again) after a oilhose from the oilcooler popped off during a pull with conrod bearing damage as a result.

This gave me the opportunity too see what damage this year of mistreating my engine had caused.

I couldn’t find any damage caused by knock though.

Earlier I had a Gizzmo knockdetector installed. I also could listen to the engine with it with a headphone.

The gizzmo did’nt detect any knock nor couldn’t I hear any knock back then which wasn’t detected by the ECU also.

But none the less, I do agree that it is good practice to avoid knock as much as possible though.

Edited by Piet
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11 hours ago, Tightmopedman9 said:

The LDR routine is LCALLED from the running loop. At 6000RPM the running loop is fully executed only 3 times a second. Compound that with the change limitation on the I factor and the boost regulation routine is actually pretty damn slow.  With that said, I still think it has a lot of practical use. On most TD04H turbos a properly setup target load map can prevent boost spikes and keep boost equal through gears.

 

I'am not sure I totally agree with that:

The LDR P-Part and LDR KFP2 tables are read in the routine starting at 14832 (containing the PID logic) wich is lcalled from the routine starting at 139B wich is lcalled 64 times  in the running loop, so when the running loop is executed 3 times a second the tables are read 192 times per second. That's every 5 ms

Not that slow though. :)

 

In my opinion it's not a slowness of the LDR routines that causes boostspikes but the preset i.e. the TCV-table just being too far off.

Therefore it's important to get the TCV table right first.

I think the method described by Boxman is a very good way to achieve that.

Edited by Piet
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@Boxman

I definitely approve of the TCV tuning before the LDR set point tuning. That's how I have done 3 of the cars I've done. With a 19T though I have had serious trouble if I just re-activate the LDR cycle. To reduce overshoot I have been severely reducing the action of the I-Part and the P-Part. 

My issue with tuning ignition knock free, is I don't know if I could add timing and get more power. So knock is a good indicator I have hit my limit with timing and should back off. I'm hoping that if I add one hex digit it will only give me a few counts of knock. This is where my abject inexperience with actually tuning engines shows. I must use my knowledge rather than experience. Then again, when was the last time you have had a datalog without a single KR event?

One unrelated observation. 

I live in California, USA. Here all the gasoline has up to 10% Ethanol in it, I have noticed that if I take the VE part load map, and make the conversion value 14.7/(X*0.0078125) as suggested previously in this thread to make it an AFR map, the values do not match the recorded AFR at all. Usually 1.5 points off under load. Usually I would just change the injector scaling to have it inject more fuel over the whole Range, but this leads to big negative fuel trims, so I have changed the conversion factor to 14.4/(X*0.0078125). That's about stoichiometric for 6% ethanol, as the fuel is limited to 10% and may vary, this lead to the AFRs matching the map way better under load. Anyone have a reason why this works?  (Running open loop fueling under load right now)

Also for what it's worth. 

Green injectors:
0.7032 basic adjustment 
Deadtimes are 
0.8190, 0.7605, 0.7020 for
13.03v, 13.52v, 14.02v respectively  

I have good fuel trims, all the values in the VE map that are part of closed loop are  stock scaled values.

Ill throw up some screenshots later.

Thanks- Calvin

Edited by Calvin Sonnik
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